TRANSCRIPT - ABC NEWS 24 AFTERNOON AGENDA WITH GREG JENNETT

PAUL FLETCHER MP

Shadow Minister for Science and the Arts

Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy

Manager of Opposition Business in the House

TRANSCRIPT

ABC NEWS 24 AFTERNOON LIVE

23 MAY 2024

GREG JENNETT: All right, let's return to energy. Now, with some outstanding policy on nuclear power still to come from the federal Coalition, we spoke a little earlier to frontbencher and semi-regular guest Paul Fletcher. He joined us from Sydney. Paul Fletcher, welcome back once again to Afternoon Briefing. Why don't we start with energy policy? The Coalition, as far as I can tell, has generally applauded the extension announced today of New South Wales' largest coal-fired generator at Eraring, at some potential cost to taxpayers in your home state, I might add. Do you accept that by August 2027, the reliability in the transition to renewables will be fully established? That is the now marked date for the closure of Eraring.

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, thanks, Greg, and good to be with you. We have been saying for some time that under Chris Bowen, Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister, some 90% of baseload capacity is due to be withdrawn by the mid-2030s, and the plans for what it's to be replaced with are far from adequate. And there's sadly little reason to be confident that Mr. Bowen can deliver on them. So, we're not at all surprised that the New South Wales Labor government has, frankly, arrived at what is clearly a similar conclusion—that they are obviously worried that if Eraring were to shut down on its current schedule, there would be a significant gap in generation capacity. And that's why the New South Wales government, it would seem, has taken the actions that it has. So, we certainly see this as a recognition of reality. I think it would be reassuring if Mr. Bowen showed more of a recognition of reality, but there's been very little evidence of that.

GREG JENNETT: What would be your policy position in government if, in 2027, Eraring were not ready then either to switch down in August? Actually, is of 2027, would a Coalition government federally be prepared to support further extensions?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, I'm not going to predict now a particular decision that we may or may not take three years from now. What I will say is we've been pretty clear we want to see the transition to Net Zero by 2050 achieved—that clearly needs a wholesale transformation of our energy system. We think it's vital that that transition be done in a way where energy is affordable and reliable. And we are very concerned, and many objective observers share our concern, that Mr. Bowen's plans to achieve this, ending up with a 100% reliance on renewable energy, seem highly implausible. We see a clear role for natural gas as part of this transition. Now, Mr. Bowen for two years was telling us that natural gas was not something that he had much enthusiasm for. Just a couple of weeks ago, we saw Labor come out with a report under the auspices of Resources Minister Madeleine King, which seemed to say some more rational things about natural gas. Of course, literally later than that, we saw Labor do a deal with the Greens in the Commonwealth Parliament, which will make it harder for new offshore gas projects in Western Australia to be approved. So, there is very little reason for objective observers to be confident that Mr. Bowen has a plan which is credible and deliverable. And it is so important that we have reliable, affordable energy as we manage this transition.

GREG JENNETT: All right, quick one on migration policy, Paul Fletcher. Attention's been paid this week to the case of the Sudanese noncitizen, Emmanuel Saki, charged with murder. One of the considerations in his release by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal was a change to the character test made at the behest of the New Zealand government. Does the opposition argue that that was an inappropriate change made for New Zealand but, of course, it applies across the board, and would you unwind it in government?

PAUL FLETCHER: The facts are that Mr Saki committed a number of violent crimes, and on the basis of that, a decision was taken last year to remove his humanitarian visa. He's a Sudan national, he's lived in Australia for quite a number of years. That decision to remove his visa was appealed to the Australian, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, which overturned the decision and restored his visa. The tribunal has said a reason it did that was because of a ministerial direction given by Andrew Giles in early 2023, which required the tribunal to pay much greater attention to how long somebody had been in Australia and their community ties. So, would you unwind that? Had that decision not been taken, had Mr Giles not issued that direction, then there is a very real possibility that the person who was allegedly murdered by Mr Saki in Brisbane earlier this year, or early this month I should say, might well still be alive. This is another instance of Mr Giles being weak and incompetent when it comes to border protection and keeping Australians safe. 

GREG JENNETT: All right, but just on the question, would you undo that change? And I've run through the reasons why it was made, largely for Kiwis, but would you? Do you see that as a weakness in the system?

PAUL FLETCHER: The first thing we'd like to see is a clear explanation from Mr Giles as to why he made that direction and the attention he gave to the safety consequences. There's very stark evidence now that those safety consequences are highly detrimental to the Australian community. All we've seen from him is to attempt to argue that, oh well, Commonwealth lawyers told the tribunal that Mr Saki should not have his visa restored. But he has not addressed the fundamental question: why did he issue such a dangerous weakening of the position by issuing this Ministerial Direction Number 99, which demonstrably, on the facts before us now, is leading to Australians being less safe.

GREG JENNETT All right, leave that one with us. We'll take it up with him. And as I recall, it might have been an instruction from the Prime Minister who had had discussions with Chris Hipkins at the time. But anyway, leave that with us. Paul Fletcher, we'll talk again soon. 

PAUL FLETCHER: Thanks, Greg.