TRANSCRIPT - ABC Sydney Drive The Monday Political Forum with Richard Glover

PAUL FLETCHER MP

Shadow Minister for Science and the Arts

Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy

Manager of Opposition Business in the House

TRANSCRIPT

ABC Sydney Drive

24 JUNE 2024

Richard Glover: The Monday political forum. With me in the studio is Paul Fletcher, a federal Liberal MP for Bradfield and a Liberal frontbencher.  He joins us here on Drive, Paul, good afternoon.

Paul Fletcher: Hello, Richard, good to be with you.

Richard Glover: Now, Peter Dutton, for the first time has gained a narrow lead as preferred Prime Minister, backed by 36% of voters, compared with 35% who favour Mister Albanese. This according to a poll published today in the nine newspapers. 

What's working at the moment for the Opposition Leader after a month of debate about everything from climate change targets to immigration and the economy, I guess I'm asking which of those things seems to be dominant in your mind in terms of getting this bounce in voter approval?

And could the coming tax cuts on the other side be the circuit breaker the Government needs? Paul Fletcher.

Paul Fletcher: Well, Richard, I think the first thing is, um, over the last two years Australians have been able to get to know Peter Dutton. Naturally enough, previously he'd largely been seen talking about pretty heavy issues like Defence and Home Affairs. But people have seen him talking about a broader range of issues such as online safety for children and many other things.

I think they've also seen that he's been very consistent. So we've been talking about the cost of living crisis and Peter's been talking about this very consistently since we, came into Opposition. And as we've seen, for example, a Budget come down which really didn't do much to contain government spending and so therefore is maintaining pressure on inflation. We've got fiscal policy which is not really fighting inflation and we're leaving it to the Reserve Bank to do that. 

As people see that and get worried about that, I think what it makes them recognise is that the dangers that Peter's been highlighting on this front and the importance of dealing with the cost-of-living crisis, is being confirmed by the way that events are playing out.

Richard Glover: Can I just come to you Paul Fletcher on energy and the Coalition’s nuclear announcement? 

Because some people have said this, that by creating uncertainty, the person who's got $100 million, who wants to invest in a wind farm tomorrow might say, gee whiz, this other lot might get in on the next election and focus on other things.

I might keep my money in my pocket, and of course if that person does that, in the end there's less energy. Supply and demand, the price of power goes up.

Paul Fletcher: Look, Peter Dutton pointed out the truth, what everybody knows to be the truth, that this Labor government is not on track to meet its 2030 target. And of course the facts, are the Coalition committed to a target in 2015, we said we were going to get Australia's emissions down by 29% from 2005 levels by 2030.

Well in 2005, Australia was emitting around 610 million tonnes. By the end of 2022, the year we left government, it was down to 432 million tonnes. So we actually delivered. It was down 29%. 

Mister Bowen came in as the new minister. He boldly beat, his chest and said we're going to commit to 43%. And in 2023, the emissions reduction flatlined. So we had the Coalition delivering outcomes, Labor talking a big game but not delivering. The fact is we've actually got a track record of delivering.

Richard Glover: Ok, Paul, but if you're so good at delivering, why not deliver this interim target?

Paul Fletcher: Well because we've simply made the point that if you assess Labor's performance and Mister Bowen's performance against what they say they're going to do, you know, the rate at which they need to be contracting new renewable energy, if they're to meet this promise of 82% of energy in our electricity market coming from renewables by 2030, they're hopelessly behind their own targets.

It's not a plan that's credible and that's simply the point that Peter Dutton was making, that Mister Bowen promised this big new target. But if you look at what he's actually doing and actually delivering, there is no prospect of it being achieved.

Richard Glover: I want to move on to China, Paul Fletcher every Australian should be pleased for our farmers and wine growers that this is back on track, shouldn't they?

Paul Fletcher: Look, it is of course an important relationship and when the Coalition was in government, you know, we entered into the free trade agreement and that's been very important. But what we also did was maintained a consistent position in relation to our values, and that was the case under all three Liberal Prime Ministers.

In relation to the issue of telecommunications equipment in the 5G network, or in relation to the issue of how we responded when we saw China impose pretty punitive trade measures in relation to coal, or lobster, or wine, or other significant Australian exports. We maintained a consistency of position throughout that.

That wasn't an easy thing to do and I pay tribute to Scott Morrison, and Malcolm Turnbull, and Tony Abbott for their leadership throughout that period. I think that consistency we were able to maintain has been important in where things have got to today and of course the Coalition welcomes the fact that there are visits occurring at very high levels. 

But bear in mind that we went through a period where at China's instigation not Australia's, there were no such visits occurring at ministerial level or at leader level. It's pleasing that we are now back to being in a position to have those, but we as a nation went through a fairly tough period and we stood up for our principles and values through that period.

Richard Glover: I think most people agree with you about for instance the 5G. Australia's hardline on the 5G, led by yourself actually was later copied by other countries. But to you, the phrase “poking China in the belly”, that's essentially what we did with that ill-advised and suddenly announced claim that there should be an international investigation into the origins of COVID. Why was it in Australia's interest to suddenly be the leader on that?

Paul Fletcher: The reality is that there will be from time to time differences of view between Australia and China as there are between Australia and a whole range of other nations. Certainly, what is important is that there be a willingness on both sides to have a mutually respectful relationship.

I make the point that I think Australia was consistent throughout that period. It's pleasing that China has resumed, including with this meeting today, the kind of dialogue that I think we would all want to be having. We all recognise that this is a very important economic relationship. Very important people to people relationship. It's important it be conducted on the basis of principles of mutual respect.

Richard Glover: Paul Fletcher is with us. We've just been listening to him. Liberal frontbencher and Federal Liberal MP for Bradfield, the Sydney seat.

Now both South Australia's Labor State Government and the Federal Opposition in Canberra are talking about banning younger Australians from using social media, perhaps relying on the use of facial recognition technology to assess a user's age.

Some other countries say that might well be a solution. Nearly everyone agrees, I think, that the net has brought virtues as well as vices. How real is the damage to younger Australians and is it possible to limit that damage in a meaningful way? 

Paul Fletcher this was announced by Mister Dutton the other day, I suppose two questions. Is it possible? And what does it do to young Australians who might rely on, you know, Facebook so that they can keep in contact with when their favourite band is playing? Just one tiny example.

Paul Fletcher: Well, I guess my starting point would be that the Coalition did a lot of work on this. We established the e Safety Commissioner, and going back ten or more years, when I was working on this as Malcolm Turnbull's Parliamentary Secretary, there was a lot of scepticism about the idea that there should be any regulatory guardrails about what people could see online.

Even though we've long accepted that there is a rating scheme that applies to content in movies or on television, and that's not just to do with pornography, or adult content, but it's also to do with things like, excessively violent content, or indeed content in how to instruct people to make an atomic bomb.

So we've long accepted with traditional media that there should be some restrictions and guard rails. It’s taken a long time to get it accepted that the same principles should apply in the online world. But that's certainly something we as a government, worked hard on. 

And I think attitudes have moved and, you then get to the kind of questions just asked here, which is okay, well, technically, how would it be possible? There was a report that we commissioned when in government from the e Safety Commissioner on how you would do age verification online. That report was provided to the current government last year.

Curiously they didn't do much with it for quite a few months but pleasingly, they now have decided to proceed with the trial that the e Safety commissioner recommended, which is going to that question of technically, how do you do it? And certainly there's a range of technologies that are being trialled in different places.

You know, you talk to some subject matter experts and they say you can detect from people's pattern of typing what their age is. Now exactly how that works, I'm not sure. But the key point is there are different technologies.

Richard Glover: I say make them identify advertising from the late nineties and if they don't know who Jan is, they're out. It might cut out a lot of people who are 30 as well.

Paul Fletcher: Well, indeed, indeed. But the key point is we need to understand the practicalities. But I think we can be confident that there will be practical ways to do this and the other key point I'd make is, this is being pursued in a number of countries now. Australia has been at the forefront of advocacy for the rule of law to apply online as well as offline through international forums over the last decade or more.

A lot of other countries are interested in our model of the e Safety Commissioner. I welcome the fact that the current government has supported the e Safety Commissioner and the work she's doing. And we do think, Peter Dutton thinks, David Coleman, our Communications spokesman, thinks that,  having an age limit is an important safety measure, and we do think that there are practical ways that can be achieved.

Richard Glover: Monday Political Forum Paul Fletcher. Just finally, the ABC's news sport panel show Monday's Experts starts tonight with co-host Catherine Murphy, whose first job as a sports reporter, I read today was for the Irish broadcaster RTE, reporting on the sport of competitive rock throwing, which she found out was actually more entertaining than it may sound.

What's the slightly obscure sport you've enjoyed watching or playing?

Paul Fletcher: Well, when my son turned eleven or twelve, he showed a great interest in clay target shooting. Something about which I previously knew absolutely nothing. And since that time I've been with him to a number of gun clubs around the Sydney metro area. And now our preferred place is the New South Wales gun club at Terry Hills wheremy son is now quite a good clay target shooter.

And I've done it once or twice and I've discovered like most things, it takes a lot more skills, ability and determination that might at first appear. So I'm not very good.

Richard Glover: Always very pleasurable for a son to absolutely beat the father hands down. Thanks to Paul Fletcher, federal Liberal MP for Bradfield. Keep practising Paul. Thanks so much.

Paul Fletcher: Thanks Richard.