TRANSCRIPT - SKY NEWS FIRST EDITION WITH TOM CONNELL

PAUL FLETCHER MP

Shadow Minister for Science and the Arts

Shadow Minister for Government Services and the Digital Economy

Manager of Opposition Business in the House

TRANSCRIPT

SKY NEWS FIRST EDITION

21 MAY 2024

TOM CONNELL: Talk around what's happened in the budget. One of the lesser spoken about elements is an increase to public servant numbers. It's something the opposition has been critical of. Joining me live now is Manager of Opposition Business, Paul Fletcher. Thanks for your time. So, two of the big increases in terms of budget cost were public servants, but the two areas are defense and social services. Are these actually areas where we do need more public servants?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, Tom, good to be with you. We have been critical of the fact that Labor is proposing 36,000 additional public servants in this budget at a cost of $24 billion over four years. The point I'd make is that Labor claims this is, for example, to deliver better service levels. That's what they've said about Services Australia, where there are 75,000 additional public servants to be employed at a cost of $1.8 billion. But actually, if you look at what's happened under Services Australia under Bill Shorten as Minister, service levels have plummeted over the last two years. If you call the Older Australians line, it used to take 21 and a half minutes under us—that was too long, by the way—but it now takes nearly 50 minutes, well over 40 minutes before somebody answers your phone call. If you apply for the Low Income Card, it used to take 16 days under us; it now takes over 80 days. These are statistics we obtained.

TOM CONNELL: Well, I mean, you're preaching to the converted. The one time I tried to call up, I couldn't believe how long it took. When you call, they say you can't even call today. More people help then?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, that's the point. Because actually, under us, with those service levels in 2021-22, there were around 26,800 people at Services Australia. It's now increased to 28,519. In other words, the numbers have increased, service levels have gone down. There is not a one-to-one correlation between numbers.

TOM CONNELL: Maybe there's just a lot more people calling up. Do you know what those numbers are at?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, no. What Mr. Shorten wants is more people employed in the public service, more people who are union members, more people who are Labor voters. What we're focused on is better service levels for Australians. That means, for example, better use of digital. What Mr. Shorten did was cut a thousand people who were IT contractors, so the IT capability of Services Australia has been reduced. And of course, he got rid of Serco, which is a specialist external call service provider. I've got no particular brief for Serco, but the use of specialist outsourcing firms in that case was delivering better results. So, the point I make is that Labor's simplistic claims that more public servants mean better service levels is actually precisely disproved by the evidence.

TOM CONNELL: Okay, well, I guess the other factor that we haven't put in there is how many people are calling up. I don't know the figure, for example, but that is the one missing figure in all of that. I want to ask you about immigration. This is a big issue now. Peter Dutton actually said after his speech that the final year of Australia’s net migration intake should be cut by 100,000 from 260,000 on Labor’s forecast to 160,000. Did that figure specifically go through Shadow Cabinet?

PAUL FLETCHER:  Well, so what Mr. Dutton said in his speech is that we would reduce permanent migration numbers from 185,000 currently to 140,000 over two years, then 50,000, and then 160,000. So, a temporary reduction, then move them back up to 160,000 to address the fact that what we've seen is net overseas migration numbers blow out under Labor. In fact, the budget revealed 1.67 million expected over five years and already 923,500 used.

TOM CONNELL: So, I understand what he said in the speech. After his speech, he also pledged a 100,000 net cut to migration in that final year, which is a huge one. It has people wondering how you would do it. Is that figure not locked in? Was that a bit of a loose-lip situation?

PAUL FLETCHER: Not at all. What we're saying is we will have a clear plan to reduce migration levels. And at the moment, people rightly suspect that Labor doesn’t have a clear plan. Migration numbers are out of control. Now, let's be clear—

TOM CONNELL: Reduce that final year by 100,000, that net figure. That means almost no temporary migrants?

PAUL FLETCHER: Migration is very important to Australia's prosperity. It's been key to our nation's growth. But at the moment, we have a serious disconnect between the number of people coming in and the number of houses being built.

TOM CONNELL: Okay.

PAUL FLETCHER: And we need to address that.

TOM CONNELL: No net temporary migrants, anyway. I'll pick myself up on that. I'll correct anyone, including myself, if I get the chance. Paul Fletcher, appreciate your time today. Thank you.

PAUL FLETCHER: Thanks, Tom.