Transcript: Mornings, ABC Radio Melbourne

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: But as you heard just a moment ago from the managing director of the ABC, the ABC, the board, Ita Buttrose, have all warmly welcomed the resumption of indexation as part of our triennium of funding, which means $84 million is being restored to the ABC budget, along with that enhanced newsgathering fund as well, $15 million originally over nine years. Paul Fletcher is the Minister for Communications, Urban Infrastructure, Cities and the Arts. Good morning, Minister.

PAUL FLETCHER: Good to be with you, Virginia.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Why now?

PAUL FLETCHER: We are announcing today the funding for ABC and SBS for the next triennium, the three‑year period, starting 1 July 2022. For at least 20 years, governments of both political persuasions have provided funding to ABC and SBS using this three‑year period, and that’s designed to give as much certainty as possible to the board and management of ABC and SBS so they can make planning decisions, and that’s also the reason why we’re announcing this now to give as much time as possible before the triennium starts to assist in planning for both organisations.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: You know, of course, that, you know, you’re doing this in the face of repeated criticism by some of your own Government members, the IPA, others in the community who are in your political corner that the ABC’s budget be cut even more, and that money certainly not be restored back to it. So, it would seem to be flying in the face of that kind of criticism, Minister.

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, we make decisions on funding allocations, whether it’s ABC and SBS or any one of the many, many other claims on the budget, based upon on assessment of need and competing priorities. And so the decision that we’ve made today, that we’re committing funding for ABC and SBS over the three‑year period of $4.2 billion, and of that the ABC will receive $3,284.9 million, is based upon on assessment of the important work that our national broadcasters do, and it includes, for example, in the case of the ABC as you mentioned in your intro, a continuation of the enhanced newsgathering measure, so that is $45.8 million over the three years of the triennium and that’s particularly for newsrooms and journalists in regional Australia.

Now, that comes on top of the ABC’s announcement just before Christmas of nearly 50 journalists in regional and remote Australia funded out of the process of their deals with Google and Facebook on the back of the Morrison Government’s News Media Bargaining Code which we passed through the Parliament this time last year. A lot of scepticism that we could get an outcome from those two giant digital platforms, but it has worked pretty effectively, and it’s just one of the many ways in which the Morrison Government has been a supporter of our national broadcasters and the important work that they do.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: The internal polling must be pretty bad that you need to try and secure rusted on ABC supporters with restoring this funding, Minister.

PAUL FLETCHER: Virginia, this is a decision based upon the portfolio or the budget submissions made by the national broadcasters in advance of the three‑year funding period. Each of the national broadcasters comes to Government. We work through what their plans are and that’s the decision that we made based upon the needs of the national broadcasters, ABC and SBS.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: [Inaudible] cut to the ABC in the first place. Do we still have to go around that mulberry bush, Minister?

PAUL FLETCHER: Sorry, Virginia, can you just ask the question again? You just cut out there for a second.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Of course. Do you still deny that there was a budget cut to the ABC in the first place?

PAUL FLETCHER: Yes, I do. In the last triennium, in 2019–20, ABC funding, $162 million; the next year $165 million; the next year – sorry, $1,062 million, $1,065 million, $1,070 million. So, each year the funding went up and the funding in the last year of the triennium before that was $1,046 million. So, it went up from the previous triennium. It went up in each year of the triennium. There was no cut. You and I discussed this before, for example, on Q&A in mid‑2020, and you told me that there was the cut. In fact, the budget paper you quoted, budget paper No,1, is not the right one to use, for example, because it excludes transactions between Government entities such as superannuation payments. When you use the right budget paper, it is clear there was not a cut in that period. But in any event, we’re facing – we’re looking forward and we’re providing secure, committed growing funding for the ABC over the next three‑year period.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Well, of course, the managing director of the ABC and the board of the ABC know well that it was an $84 million budget cut to its operating budget, and that money relates to matters that are not in our operating budget. I did want to ask you about that. I wondered if you were going to stick with that line that somehow it was a budget cut, which begs the question of what you’re restoring if you didn’t cut it in the first place, as you say. This is what the Prime Minister and your government does to the Australian public all the time now. I look out the window, for example, and see that it’s raining, and you say no, no, no, it’s sunny –

PAUL FLETCHER: Are you asking me a question – 

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: I’m asking you a question, yes.

PAUL FLETCHER: You’ve just made a statement.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: I’m asking a question. This is leading up to the question, Minister, if you’ll allow. And I say what I see, and you say, “No, you don’t see that.” And your government argues in the face of recorded evidence that black is white. Is this what the Australian public is to expect now; that no matter what we see, what the recorded evidence might be, what we know the Prime Minister says and then he says to us, “No, I never said that”? Are we to expect in this election year that that sort of denial of the facts will continue?

PAUL FLETCHER: Virginia, when you say denial of the facts, I’m looking in front of me at a table of the actual moneys paid to the ABC. In 2018–19 it was $1,045.9 million.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Is that to the operating budget, minister? I mean, I can’t believe we have to go around this again? Is that for the operating budget or is that for the increased price of transmission?

PAUL FLETCHER: That is the total funding: $1,045.9 million in 2018–19; $1,062 million in 2019–20; $1,065.4 million in 2020–21; $1,070.1 million in 2021–22. So, Virginia – 

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: For the increased cost of transmission correct.

PAUL FLETCHER: – accuse me and the Government of all kinds of things, but please do not accuse me of getting the facts wrong.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: I’m sorry I just don’t think the facts speak to the truth of that when it comes to operating budget. You know as well as I do that the cost of transmission increased, Minister.

PAUL FLETCHER: The key fact is that in the next triennium it will be $1,077 million the next year; $1,094 million the following year, $1 113 million the following year; $3,284.9 million is what we’re providing for the ABC in the next triennium. So, funding continues – funding increased every year in the last triennium, and it will increase every year in the coming triennium because the Morrison Government recognise the important work that the ABC does, and that’s why we provide the funding support that we do.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: You want a statement of expectation, or you’ve given one to the ABC, about independence and about accuracy. How’s that going to work? How does that work with the requirements that already exist in the charter?

PAUL FLETCHER: So, a couple of things to declare on. The act today says that the ABC’s newsgathering must be accurate and impartial according to the recognised standards of objective journalism. That’s the wording of the act. That’s what the Parliament requires of the ABC. No change to that. What I will do is issue a statement of expectations to the ABC asking it to provide an annual report on regional staff and regional programming. That’s one aspect of this statement of expectation. The other is asking it to provide an annual report on Australian content: how much, what genre and so on. Because Australians might be surprised to know that today there is no such requirement on the ABC although there is on the commercial broadcasters. So, what we want to do is have that information provided in a consistent format from ABC and SBS on the one hand and the commercial broadcasters on the other, so that we can get an accurate and comprehensive picture across all the free‑to‑air television, both the national broadcasters and the commercial broadcasters, as to the quantity of Australian content and what kind of Australian content it is that’ve been commissioned and broadcast.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Looking at the plethora of content produced by the ABC on radio, on television, digital, online, do you believe we’re not meeting Australian content requirements?

PAUL FLETCHER: There is no formal Australian content requirement.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Let me phrase it another way. Do you believe we’re not delivering enough Australian content?

PAUL FLETCHER: What I believe is that it’s always a good thing when these things are reported so that there is maximum transparency and when an organisation, such as the ABC does, is going to receive funding of $3.284 billion, then a reporting requirement is a perfectly reasonable thing, and the Australian people can look at what is reported and make their assessments. So, there’s no judgment in there about whether there’s any deficiency, but it’s always a good principle to be reporting on issues of concern or issues of interest, and so that’s why I’ve asked the ABC to commence this reporting.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: As part of this, this is your reporting back now and announcing the next steps in reforming media, generally, in Australia and I note today that the CEO of Free TV, Bridget Fair, is saying today that she’s not in any way impressed by what you’ve been announcing. She says they’ve waited almost a year for this response and to say we are underwhelmed is an understatement. Issues like prominence, anti‑siphoning and spectrum tax have been kicked into the long grass. Have they been or will you have something substantial to say about that? Are you making reforms in those key areas?

PAUL FLETCHER: So, the issue of prominence, for example, is the question of as more and more people have smart TVs, when you turn on the TV, do the channels, the free‑to‑air channels, both commercial and ABC and SBS, come up or are they somewhere buried deep in a menu and they’re hard to find? And this is something that the smart TV manufacturers, the Samsungs and the LGs and others, are increasingly – the concern is that they’re increasingly doing global deals with giant international companies like Netflix, which could mean that it’s harder for Australian viewers to find the free‑to‑air channels. So, one of the things I’ve announced is a future broadcasting working group that is going to have to have representatives of the industry of Government and other stakeholders. And I’ve said that one of the things I want us to work on is – this group to work on is this whole question of prominence. So, let’s understand what the issue is and then, if it’s clear that there’s a problem that needs to be addressed, then what is the right regulatory response – 

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Well, on that point Bridget Fair says, and this is a quote from her in the Financial Review today, “These are already well understood and the time for action on them is now.” So, it does sound like you are, to use her phrase, kicking it off. It’s well understood. She says the issues are clear and understood here in this market in Australia, so why do you need more time?

PAUL FLETCHER: The free‑to‑air industry in the context of the green paper process we’ve gone through has raised this as an issue. What Government is now saying is that we accept this is an issue that needs to be examined, but there will be other stakeholders that have different views. No doubt the smart TV manufacturers will come and put their perspective. There may be consumer perspectives that are different. So, while I understand that this is a concern that the free TV sector has raised and I absolutely want to engage with it, a responsible Government in dealing with an issue like this needs to go through a proper process of considering all of the perspectives, understanding the extent of the issue and then determining what the right response is. So, we will always go through a proper process to consider proposals for what would be quite significant regulatory intervention.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Do you know who wrote the complete psycho text messages, Paul Fletcher?

PAUL FLETCHER: Virginia, I’ve been asked, as have all of my colleagues, quite a few questions about this sort of soap opera–like fascination with texts. I’m getting on with my job as a minister as are all of my counterparts. I’m putting out serious policy measures today. We’ve got a lot of issues to deal with, be it getting through the pandemic, be it the continuing economic recovery, be it the national security situation. That’s what our Government’s focused on from the Prime Minister down, and I’ll leave these kinds of soap opera analyses to those who find this kind of thing interesting.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Well, let me move from soap opera to reality TV then, Paul Fletcher, do you think that Barnaby Joyce should stay in the position that he does? Is his position tenable as Deputy Prime Minister?

PAUL FLETCHER: Look, those are matters for the National Party. I’m a Liberal Minister, so that’s not something I’m going to express a view on.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Will it there be a leadership spill before the election, do you think?

PAUL FLETCHER: If you want to ask me serious questions, Virginia, I’m very happy to respond to them, but that one I’m not even going to dignify with a response.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI: I would ask it nonetheless, but, Paul Fletcher, it’s always good to talk to you. Thanks for joining me today.

PAUL FLETCHER: Thanks, Virginia.